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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Billy Kreutzmann

There may be members of the forum who doubt that the Amazing Billy K. was not one of the core members of our beloved GD . I have used my own words , and even threw the '72 Veneta Bird Song for proof . Obviously my words and example are not enough . Any help from the peanut gallery to assist me ?

For some of his artwork ,

http://www.walnutst.com/cart/artist.php?category=32

edit - I love how happy BK looks these days . Deb is friends w/ Greg Vasso , a drummer ( of Max Creek , and other bands ) . He was telling us of an experience in '09 w/BK . His band was at some gig , opening for BK . Greg finally got the nerve up at one point , and went over to Billy . He thanked him for his music , and the influence B.K. had on his own style . Billy smiled and said , Ahh , come here , and gave him a big hug . Greg is a confident man , not given to hyperbole .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-07-15 23:59:55

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-07-16 00:10:45

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 15, 2010 7:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Gosh, Micah, whatever COULD you be referring to?

For those who missed it, this question stems from Micah's, ahem, misinterpretation of a point I made in an earlier thread about who, precisely, we tend to see as Core GD: In other words, people without whom the GD just wouldn't be the GD anymore. The Irreplaceable Ones.

For those who are hardy or have time to spare, here's the previous thread. (You have to scroll down a bit to get to the BK part):

http://www.archive.org/post/314760/shows-with-good-phil

The point, basically: if you take away Jerry, Phil or Bob, the sound would change so significantly that you could have a great band, but it wouldn't have the distinctive GD sound. I doubt there's much disagreement on that obvious point :-)

But what about BK?

What would have happened if he had, say, decided to become a full-time scuba diver in '72 or '78 or '89 or whenever?

I say that the same thing would have happened that happened when Pig died, or Mickey went off on his long vacation, or Keith and Brent met their sad fates. The sound would have changed, but still would have been undeniably the Dead.

Hence, there's a Core 3 and not a Core 4.

Just my own opinion, and yeah, it's basically just spinning wheels. I fully admit that it may have to do with my not being as attuned to drums as I am to what Phil, Bob and (duh) Jerry are doing. If so, I'm more than happy to be instructed :-)

I went round and round about this with Rob, as a result of which I am now enlightened as to the following fact: We have different opinions. (Or, put another way, I'm right and he's wrong :-) )

So it's not a matter of doubting BK's greatness, or his jazzy fluency, or the extent to which he sweats, or his status as a Founding Brother.

If anything, it's about the nature of drums and whether drumming can be so utterly and absolutely distinctive as to be irreplaceable, not just for the Dead, but potentially for almost any band.

For the record, yeah, BK rules. But so did Pig. So did Keith when he was on. Call me a philistine, but that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it. Though I do have an open (if rather stubborn) mind :-)


This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-07-16 02:31:01

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

"If anything, it's about the nature of drums and whether drumming can be so utterly and absolutely distinctive as to be irreplaceable, not just for the Dead, but potentially for almost any band. "

Can you name a single other drummer that excels at playing as many different styles as Bill K?

The reason why I love the GD so much is because they integrated so many styles into their music: rock and roll, folk, country, bluegrass, blues, jazz, funk, motown, even disco (gasp!) and I'm sure I'm missing some influences there.

I don't think there is another drummer out there that has played so many different styles with one single band and excelled at all of them. The drummer is not the most glorious role in a musical group but without a drummer that can both listen and respond and also lead the band, the GD would have sounded flat. His versatility gave them the ability to explore many different dimensions of musical expression.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

It really depends on the song, AR. I think his loose approach to rock and roll and country is inimitable but I believe that is where you see him being replaceable. To appreciate his virtuosity, look to Playin', Bird Song, Dark Star from 71-74. I just love when he gets annoyed with JG BW PL spaced out atonal stuff that has no pulse and lays down a fatty jazz-funk beat, lighting a proverbial fire under their collective ass.

I have no specific examples right now but will be listening for this in the near future so as to turn on your ears to some Billy magic. Help is on the way!

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Poster: jds121291 Date: Jul 16, 2010 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

"I just love when he gets annoyed with JG BW PL spaced out atonal stuff that has no pulse and lays down a fatty jazz-funk beat, lighting a proverbial fire under their collective ass."

couldnt say it any better.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

But ... but but but .... if it depends on the song, and if the Dead would still be the Dead even if the 71-74 PITBs and Dark Stars, etc had never happened ... maybe not as good or as memorable, but still the Dead ... then that's not an argument for irreplaceability. It's an argument for quality, virtuosity, excellence, etc. Which is not the same thing.

I mean, not to open the hornet's nest, but the Dead with Vince was, shall we say, frequently lacking in the highest levels of quality. And yet it was still the Dead. It doesn't reach The Heights very often, but it still has That Sound. After JG's death, it just couldn't be the Dead anymore, because what he brought to the sound was simply too basic, even when he was mailing it in. That's what I mean by indespensability vs excellence, contributing a lot, etc etc.

I will definitely listen more carefully to PITBs, etc in the No Mickey Era, though. I do get what you're saying on that. And learning to hear more of what's going on in music is always a good thing :-)


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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Jul 16, 2010 6:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

"If anything, it's about the nature of drums and whether drumming can be so utterly and absolutely distinctive as to be irreplaceable, not just for the Dead, but potentially for almost any band."

AR makes good points for the most part, but I have to disagree with this one. There's some very distinctive drummers along the way. Think we can agree Ringo Starr was not that great, but the Beatles' sound begs for a simplistic rhythm. Keith Moon made a huge difference for The Who, not the same band without him. Same could be said for Mitch Mitchell (Hendrix), Ginger Baker (Cream) or John Bonham (Led Zeppelin). These drummers were absolutely distinctive and irreplaceable.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I wouldn't want any other drummer than BK for the GD. For my money, they sound more crisp and clean with a single drummer, and went further with unusual time signatures (The Eleven comes to mind) than most other bands. I give props to BK.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I am somewhere between you and AR . I think Billy did add a distinct sound to the band , especially in the 72-74 period , and I think you are correct about the other bands . However, there are some great jazzy drummers who could have fit . The band would be different , but I think a BK-less band could have still been great .
I am not a musician, so I am, somewhat, talking out my ass !
An interesting "what if game" is what would the Dead been like without Mickey coming back ? Of course the Drums/Space segment may never have happened . The perceived "problems" with the drummers, was it all Mickey, or his crowding Billy ? Or does some of the "blame" belong to Mr K? How would he developed if he remained the lone drummer ?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 1:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Hmmm. I'm sure drums/space wouldn't have happened. And without coming out of drums, I don't see space as happening per se, though I think of that as emerging in large part from PL and Ned Lagin, and a very space-like aspect could well have been incorporated into songs. Which in a way it was, earlier (pre-Lagin), just not as a distinctive section.

I really like Mickey in drums and appreciate the world music aspect (and his amazing work there), but tend to think that two drummers had to bog things down some. You can't quite "light a fire" under JG PL BW so easily when two drummers have to cooperate on it ...

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 16, 2010 2:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

It was a trade off for sure . I think you are on to something , there are a couple of those shows in later 74 where they intergrate "Seastones" into their music . Maybe they would have taken that as a cue .
But I think, in general, they were moving away from more exploratory music as a band , through most of the 80's . But It would have certainly been easier to "turn a corner" with Billy , so who knows .
But no Mickey , no Fire on the Mountain (yikes !) , and he did seem a force for sonic exportation .

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

For the early GD, one drummer was fine (how about 1 drummer for the Allman Brothers?)
And Billy's drumming is unique. I do enjoy BK's Breakfast Bowl over Jack's. Maybe the BK King can chime in...

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

rasta , everyting irie mon

BK breakfast bowl ? I actually looked that up . I had no idea . I thought it was some kind of granolla bar or something crunchy ( maybe in more ways then one ).
Now I feel like puking ,

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/03/burger-king-adds-egg-mcmuffin-breakfast-sandwich-breakfast-bowl-to-breakfast-menu.html

ratsa , do not come 'round so much this summer , sad IA

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 16, 2010 5:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I believe the best years of the dead in terms of spontaneous inspiration (and that is the primary metric i use to judge much of everything they do) started when Mickey left, and ended when he came back. The two drum thing worked great for a time, but it certainly hit its peak in 1970 when the band was really about the dark stars and other ones and alligators, where his gongs and other assorted percussion fit in and enhanced what went on. But as soon as he left, the band IMMEDIATELY (that's right, even way back in 1971) began gravitating toward a freer, lighter, jazzier edge. If Mickey had stayed and Billy had left, I don't think it would have worked.

I think, certainly during those years, Billy was indispensable, and no other drummer in the world could have given the band what he had. So in that time period I gotta say, Billy's drumming style was an integral part of their sound; in fact, I happen to think that in many spots he was in the driver's seat. Sometimes deep during a jam, things will suddenly change rhythmically, and you won't be able to quite pick out where the change happened; I find that this usually comes directly from Billy. So in short I completely disagree with ARose.

I can't accurately judge his importance in the later years since I still am not nearly as much of a fanatic after 1977.

edit: As an example of this (one of countlessly many) Check out the famous dark star from 11-11-73. I don't remember exactly where it happens, but there's a spot when everything is dark and spacey, and Billy kicks out an irresistible rhythm, and the rest of the band locks in. He is definitely the leader in this moment.

This post was modified by midnightcarousel on 2010-07-16 12:50:43

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Completely agree and posted mostly the same take on Billy K above, before scrolling down to read the rest of the thread.

Just listened to 11-11-73 Dark Star through the end last night and it never fails to amaze. That MLB jam on is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard. Up there with the beautiful jam from 2-18-71.

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 16, 2010 10:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Yeah the point in that Star I was referring to has kind of a swirling effect; all of a sudden Billy starts spewing out an uncontainable rhythm that explodes and twirls and spits out glittering ashes - reminds me of Ringo's famous drumming in "tomorrow never knows", not in style, but in impact and the "bigness" of the way it feels to me. I'm not a very good wordsmith but I think I've described it as well as I ever possibly could.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 12:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I'm inclined to agree with you on "the best years ... in terms of spontaneous inspiration," probably because of the turn-on-a-dime aspect, though I do find it hard to compare 60s and early 70s because it's almost apples and oranges. OK, maybe tangarines and clementines, but you know what I mean.

But that's really a point about excellence, not about indespensability. No JG, no Dead, right? So, no BK, no ... turn-on-a-dime Dead? Jazzy Dead? Really good Dead? That's not actually the same as "no Dead."

I think it's possible to say that someone added something amazing, or that he was in the driver's seat quite often, without being indespensable.

But it's interesting to hear the thoughts on this -- especially with specific examples. Regardless of whether I end up agreeing or not, it's definitely helping me to hear more of what BK was doing. I've probably less conscious of that in part because of the two drummer phenomenon. I find it hard separate them with certainty, except that Bill is more jazzy and Mickey is more tribal and military regimental (as I'd put it ... non-technical, I think, and maybe wrong, but that's how I think of it).

I do know the band considered BK the key anchor; in fact, there was a particular drum, wasn't there? His bass drum or something? (See how much I know, LOL?) But I guess I differentiate "anchor" (which is about enabling the sound) from "sound" per se. It's spinning theoretical wheels or parsing straws or something, but that's my take on it, at this point anyway ...






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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I think we've reached the point where there is really no argument anymore, just a disagreement on terms. To me, the "dead sound" is whatever it was during whatever era you're referring to; if Jerry had taken a break for a couple years and the rest of the band had continued touring under that name with a different guitarist, that would be the "dead sound" for that era as far as I'm concerned. I think you just use the phrase "dead sound" to refer specifically to the sound cultivated by the three guitarists of the band, and that's cool.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Oh, sure. I think it's basically all just a disagreement over terms -- and terms with highly speculative conditions, LOL. The whole idea of a core is a mental construct, and like most patterns or labels, it's way more rigid than the reality; it's like asking who should or shouldn't be in the literary canon, or who were the leading surrealists, as if there's One Answer.

But it can be kind of an interesting way to clarify how you look at things. Sometimes you learn things along the way, amidst the babbling and rambling. As long as you don't think there will actually be, ya know, a Conclusion where somebody Concedes and somebody else Wins :-)

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I WIN

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

No way , MC . I started a whole thread thingy on this .
WE WIN ! ; and another plus , AR is on her way ....

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 17, 2010 4:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Reread the last two sentences, buckos. If you think you win, you don't. Besides, I just RSVPd to that Barbara Boxer party, and after they give the address, they give the secret words that get you into the inner sanctum: "Always Listen to AltheaRose."

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 17, 2010 5:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Lord , who can refute the BBoxer secret password .I stand down AR .
Not really . Imagine going to that . What a comfortable , friendly setting . They would use me as kindling ( or definitely try ) .
I could directly appeal to the big scholarly guns , LiA , Cliff , and others , but I will not push my luck ( or yours , Ha ) . So it's stubborn vs. stubborn ( does your family know of this condition ? :-} ) .
BK was core 4
BK was core 4
Bk was core 4
Now I have exhausted all my logic and resources , AR
C'est fini .

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 18, 2010 4:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

LiA, Cliff, etc have had more sense than to get involved.

As for my family, they're a bunch of traitors. They're on your side. My 14-year-old has concluded: "Most drummers are not indespensable, but I think he adds a certain ZEST." Zest. Nice.

But I think they'll ultimately swing to my side, or I'll force them to come to the Boxer party with me.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 18, 2010 6:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann / 2 Weeks To Go AR !

So true about ' the big guns ' . I mean look at us in our sandbox . It wasn't me who spilled any of my juice . It was you !
I'm paying your family . They are businesspeople not traitors . I mean , what limits are there in stubborn vs stubborn ? None ? Little ?
You however , hold certain trump cards . Very expensive trump cards , at least for me for their continuing loyalty .
Your 14 year old is following the plan quite well . I said to begin with a more soggy word , but it's already up to zest . By next week it will be indispensable . Then in about 2 weeks you will be starting your very own thread . I haven't come up with the title yet . I hope I have enough money for this .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw7dBg9D2Z4

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 15, 2010 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Ah yes , AR . I told you we would continue . This one can not stand . ;)

I need a bit more help here , good people .
Strat. , musicians , drummers out there , what do you have to say about BK from your POV .
IA vets , some old threads out there that you remember ?

edit - your , " hence there's a Core ... ( I can't even finish that sentence ).. " , is driving me nuts ! Stubborn vs. stubborn , AR

a great 4' portion of Eyes from BK3 ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTxB5M6urw

and his site ,

http://www.billkreutzmann.com/

if you go to the upper right hand side , there are some tunes to choose . Among the new ones are 7 Walkers ( who is singing that ? ) and Murderland , both written by RH .



This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-07-16 02:51:09

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 16, 2010 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Papa Mali is signing for 7 Walkers.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 10:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Thanks BD . Planning on several dates to see them in mid Dec. .

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 15, 2010 8:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

"Stubborn vs Stubborn"? Don't say that, or Rob will repost the Petty clip.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 15, 2010 8:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

That is inducement , not a position to shrink from . rob is most likely sleeping now , so I'll be nice (er) .

I would hope that MR . wordsmith would re-post that green tripe ,

I mean that soulful , expressive piece of music that transformed him during the summer of love , 1989 . A stirring addition to the long canon of fine art produced in the Western tradition . That song brings me to the heights of the kids rabbit's front paws . I was moved .

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 16, 2010 2:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Are you still stuck on this? You bang on longer than Kreutzmann. Look at the title of the song; that's the point you seem to have missed entirely, but you're the very epitome of it. So pull up your pants and stop exposing your inadequacies.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 6:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Hello rob , and good day !
I know . I am naked before Him , thus all my inadequacies are already exposed . And there are many , many , believe you me . My pants are on correctly so that part is a bit fuzzy .
Yes , I know the name of the song . Lord , this is tedious . It has nothing to do with the stupid song . Got your goat a bit , so my small , petty humor , at mostly my expense , was achieved . I am so used to your acidic writing on a fairly regular basis , and it's been so .. nice .. lately around here .... Oh forgive me for poking the bear ( or would it be a different animal in this case ) ?

And hey , read that old thread AR put up if you need to . No anti BK here . He didn't bang on and on . Let me, as many others have , be subjected to the anvil if needs must be , but BK ? Let's have control , and not spray our words everywhere .
With regards ,

Attachment: 220px-Eduard_von_Gr__tzner_Falstaff.jpg

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

"Let's have control, and not spray our words everywhere."


Yeah. Shame you don't.

:-)

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Well played ( the incisive perception ) , and a belly laugh - you rascally Scot .

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I don't think I've ever seen, in 5 yrs on this forum, any posts doubting Billy's talent or standing as a founding member of the Grateful Dead. I know, however, that many of us have supported the idea that the band may have been more able to explore and jam after 1975 without the presence of Mickey.

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Poster: Street Pig ! Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Was there a previous thread on this idea, musically what would say were the factors that prevented further exploration?

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

During the single drummer era they were able to "turn a dime" during improv jams. Billy is a jazzy drummer with rock sensibilities and psychedelic ears. With Mickey coming back, the rhythm section became much heavier and plodding. They couldn't change gears as quickly anymore - more members = more inertia. Especially with Mickey being so heavy handed on the drums... not to say I don't love his contributions at times but too often there is a runaway train kind of feeling to the drumming after hiatus. Much more opportunity for sloppiness.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

AltheaRose has been expressing the opinion that Billy was not a key architect of the sound. Just like everyone else, she is entitled to her silly opinions :)

What was that quote? Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one and they all stink.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 1:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

"Architect," sure. But so was Pigpen, and probably TC as well. I'm not thinking of origins, really, or even "key component" so much as "take this part away, and it's not the Dead anymore." I'd concede that the Dead might not have happened in the first place without BK, for all the reasons cited.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 17, 2010 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

yeah well Bill is the only one Jerry dragged along on his first solo outing. And other than Keith the only one he ever played with outside the Dead as far as I know

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 17, 2010 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I'm not up on JG's solo work at all, but I'm pretty sure Phil sat in for John Kahn on (rare) occasion with JGB, and there's NRPS, too, with Mickey (and Phil very early on, I think). Ringo would probably know all that, but has wisely stayed out of this thread :-)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 17, 2010 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

that Phil show is an abnormality and I wouldn't call NRPS a JERRY solo project really. More like him lending a hand to a friends side project much like Crosby or Kantner.And using this argument we could call out Mickey and the Hartbeats without Phil and Bob.

I understand your point but to me the core four includes Bill. Of course I'm guilty of pissing off Pigpen fans when I say that just like you are with Bill but that's how I see it.

so answer this question - who exactly could have replaced Bill? And do you think the band was as good later on? I'm not asking if they were still a hot good band because I think so but where they as fresh and vital after the hiatus?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 17, 2010 2:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

You'd said "outside the Dead" :-) Did Phil only do that one time? (Perhaps making up for the fact that, as I recall, Kahn sat in for him with everyone else in the Dead earlier that year at a benefit? I'm not serious about the reason, but weren't those both in '82?)

Who could have replaced Bill ... oh heck, how would I know? I'm not up on All Possible Drummers c. 1970-1994 or thereabouts. I suspect if push had come to shove and he'd hung up his drum sticks at some point the band would have come up with a few candidates.

Was the band as as good, fresh and vital post-hiatus ... It's a matter of taste, but I guess many people think '77 was the "best" year. I'm not keen on "bests," but if pushed, I'd have to say "as good," sometimes (initially and then sporadically); "as fresh and vital," no.




This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-07-17 21:25:54

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 17, 2010 2:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know

During the early 70s, the Grateful Dead were extremely active in the recording studio. I could spend all day asking you about the sessions, but…

…I wouldn’t remember them all anyway (laughs).

One record that stands out has just you and Jerry Garcia, which was his first solo album (Garcia). Do you remember anything in particular about making that one?

I do. It was really fun and free. He would just have a few musical ideas — he would be on the piano and I was in an isolated drum booth. We talked back and forth. He’d start an idea and I would just come up with a rhythm for it. The whole time we’re doing this in the studio — we did this for a few days, coming up with original ideas of his and working them out — Hunter would be in the control room writing words and verses. We wrote some of the best Grateful Dead tunes during those sessions with just Jerry, me and Hunter. Garcia even played bass on it (laughs). I got a really great, big drum sound and it was fun.

I just listened to the remaster this morning and it’s a beautiful record.

Isn’t it fun? It’s amazing, it still sounds good to me too. That’s the thing about music — it can hold its gem-like quality if it’s good upfront.

http://www.examiner.com/x-15209-The-Dead-Examiner~y2010m1d3-Interview-with-Grateful-Deads-Bill-Kreutzmann--Part-3

For me, Phil, Jer and Billy. I appreciate bob and others, but those are the key 3.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 17, 2010 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know

not counting his prominence with getting every other song or his rock star in front status, Bob is extremely under rated imo. He is definitely an indispensable part of their sound imo

China Cat, Scarlet, 1/2 step, Terrapin just to name a couple, his quirky riffs make those songs unique i think

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 17, 2010 2:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know

I agree, BUT I would have paid to travel and follow those 3 in a trio. With Bob, I can't even stream Ratdog. As part of the core, agreed, and he's indispensable to the sound

Can we agree that Bill K is integral? There from the start and at the time was the "seasoned" performing pro.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 17, 2010 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know

absolutely i agree that Bill was indispensable. Bob on his own has never done stuff i would follow either so i agree with you there although it was VERY impressive the vibe he laid down at that comes a time show i saw. Maybe the setting too ( a homecoming for me i hadn't been back to the bay area for over 10 years )I don't know but it was SO nice and such a nice change over the horrible time i had seeing " the dead" at the gorge. That was so depressing.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 4:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Finally , AR .
I'll just blot out of mind the first two sentences .
Half a loaf of bread is better then no loaf at all . ;)

Might I suggest an easy way to begin exploring carefully PITB , sans MH

http://www.archive.org/details/gd74-05-21.sbd.belkin.2597.sbefail.shnf

Good luck !

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 5:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Oy vay. I think I'll just pay my $150 for a Re-elect Barbara Boxer private concert ticket and go ask Phil and Bob themselves. I'll be sure to report what Their Surviving Corenesses say.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 5:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

That would be a cruel and unusual assignment on some levels . A bridge to far , AR . Enjoy that PITB .

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Poster: vapors Date: Jul 16, 2010 5:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Great suggestion. Listening to this Playin’ surely demonstrates how the ‘core four’ are hard wired together. They got that way by playing together, taking chances together, working together to deliver highly satisfying music. Each is integral to the whole.

Billy’s playing sure butters my bread!

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Poster: august_wst Date: Jul 16, 2010 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I point to his billing on the Grateful Dead's first album for evidence. I mean the guy was known as "Bill the Drummer" dammit! 'nuff said.

Besides, have you ever seen when Billy is in a groove and he shuts his eyes and appears to be dancing?

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Poster: Street Pig ! Date: Jul 15, 2010 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I have to say 72-74' billy was the reason for that distinctive jazzy sound, what endurance to pound the drums night after night, and with such compassion, BILLY ROCKS!

Attachment: billy.jpg
Attachment: 1973-05-20-Jerry-Billy_by_Michael_Parrish.JPG

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Poster: rippley Date: Jul 15, 2010 4:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

The title of the GD Movie could easily be "Billy Kreutzmann, Superstar"

anyone who sweats like that must be allright!

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Poster: Street Pig ! Date: Jul 15, 2010 4:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Good one!

Attachment: dead-movie-2.jpg

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Poster: Street Pig ! Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I meant

Attachment: dead-movie-7.jpg

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Poster: craven714 Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

try...

Attachment: vlcsnap-13737381.png
Attachment: billy.jpg

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Poster: Street Pig ! Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

72 billy

Attachment: 1972n.jpg

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Poster: Headphone Date: Jul 15, 2010 7:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Great quote, rippley!

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Poster: vapors Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Superstar, artist,
and dentist ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTMOCb8aseY&;feature=related

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

LOL

Oh my Tooth Mr. Bill

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Poster: Pork Soda Date: Jul 15, 2010 9:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

F*&( Mickey! he was obsolete when they stopped playin' "Alligator". Two Drummers Is Too Many after 1970.

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Poster: madmonkmcphee Date: Jul 15, 2010 9:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Totally agree, Mickey doesn't add much in my opinion. As a drummer, nothing sounds much better than Billy on his Gretsch kit Europe '72 tour. Honestly I can't stand the sound of the Ludwig kit in '74 with the wall of sound. Seems like I can never hear his snare drum

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jul 15, 2010 9:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

One of the most under appreciated drummers ever IMO! Also a fellow Hawaii Islander... Aloha Billy! Thanks for the shows you played here!

Attachment: 19720301_1777.jpg
Attachment: deadbook20.jpg

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 15, 2010 8:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Just on the art prints in the link you posted: I'm seriously impressed. I didn't expect to be. I can get all picky and art critic-y on this (lacking in subtlety, yada yada), but really, the guy's got loads of talent and he's obviously been working very hard to cultivate it. And boy, is he prolific! The man must be related to the Energizer Bunny.

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-07-16 03:17:53

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Poster: craven714 Date: Jul 15, 2010 5:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Billy WHO??


I kid. As a drummer for decades myself, I have ruined many-a-pair of underwear myself watching/listening to Billy (with all 3 possible exports).
They had an exhibition at Red Rox in '03 or 4 with some of
Billys stuff. I had no idea and was completely blown away.

Thanks for sharing mic and moreover, thanks for that link!